# Thrust calculation in a half wave dipole

Dear readers ,today I’m going to share Laureti’s method to calculate the thrust from a PNN dipole.

This post contains the translation of this Laureti’s article on ASPS webpage. More information about the dipole setup can be found here on Neo Leges Motus. I refer you to that post to read about ASPS early method to obtain e.m thrust. There is also an on-topic discussion on Nasa Spaceflight forum.

It is needed to borrow these two figures from the abovementioned post:

The result of the cycle is a thrust in the same direction in both dipoles. That thrust is due to Lorentz force alone:

F= i l B

since photonic thrust is more than 1000 times lower than that of Lorentz force.

In ASPS setup i is the current in rms inside dipoles arms, l is the length of the dipole that is 16 cm and B is the optimistic calculation of the magnetic field in a dipole in the feedpoint of the other dipole 8 cm away.

The calculation is optimistic in the sense that it’s only to understand the basic amount of force that is in place.

The current that flows in the dipoles is optimistically given at 4 Amp. rms. As said, the l-long dipole arm is a circuit segment 16 cm long. For the calculation of B one has to use the last formula in this link [from an Italian electrodynamics textbook – E.N] at the bottom of page 883, where integration limits aren’t ± ∞ anymore but dipole ends, that is -8 cm and +8 cm. In order to realize the amount of thrust involved let’s favourably suppose that the dipole of which one wants to find the field B at a distance of 8cm in the feedpoint is subjected to the same field in all the points of the dipole. That is, that field B is on the whole dipole the one that is at the center of the dipole in front of the one for which the magnetic field is to be found.

The setup with which to do the test is composed of two vertical dipoles hanging in front of one another, 16 cm long and 8 cm apart, as in the figure c below:

The two parallel dipoles are ¼ wave apart. The thrust detection is made with 1 or more lasers on ballistic pendulum, lenses, etc.. It is recommended to use at least one power divider and a phase shifter in addition to a good power supply resistant to inevitable mismatches.

The calculus of F force offers a thrust of .454 milligram, that is not even half a milligram!

With such thrusts one could ask how can the commonly used electric motors, actually magnetic motors, even work. In reality in the motors the windings are way longer than 16 cm, stator and rotor are much closer and above all the whole is super boosted by magnetic masses with magnetic permeability much greater than 1 and top of the top they don’t work around the lethal frequency of 432MHz and the related phase problems.

With F432 I [Laureti] managed to increase such effects by about 100 times (even with a lower current) … but it’s still not enough for take-off. I must also add a very important fact in my opinion that has always played against the thrust of open circuits:

In several Italian tests all the authors explicitly say that open circuits clearly violate the principle of action and reaction and resolve the thing by saying that in practice these forces do not exist or that the electromagnetic forces of Lorentz only exist between closed circuits as mentioned in the excerpt below:

Here’s the translation of the excerpt:

The considerations previously exposed can lead to believe that one can calculate the electrodynamic action between two elements in a circuit i1dl1 and i2dl2 through the first and the second Laplace formula. In other words one can think to calculate dF12 force exercised by current “elementino” i1 dl1 on current elementino i2dl2 and vice versa the force dF21 that i2dl2 exercises on i1dl1 through the two formulas

However it’s easy to recognize that those two expressions of dF12 and dF21 don’t correspond in general to two vectors identical and contrary; that is in general they don’t obey to action and reaction principle. The thing is however not so serious because such fundamental principle is instead always fulfilled by the expressions that are obtained by integrating dF12 and dF21 along the two reciprocally interacting circuits. This analysis shows, once again from another point of view, that Laplace’s mathematical formulas must be considered only as mathematical expressions devoid of physical meaning; only after having carried out the integration along closed lines (as necessarily all closed circuits are) one can obtain formula that can be compared to experience.

From what has been said, it is clear what determines the definition of non-existent for such electrodynamic forces that can potentially violate Newton III: the baseness of thrust in addition to the difficulty of the experimental setup that requires a well-equipped experimental electrodynamic lab … apart from the fact that in secula seculorum [forever and ever – E.N] nobody went to investigate this event specifically.

As I [Laureti] have already said in:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42239.0

The first who thought about interactions between open circuits such as the above dipoles (and with an implicit invitation to study the thing well before constructing mathematical bans), was J.C. Maxwell.

He explicitly tells at pag.163 Vol.2 of his Treatise:

..NO EXPERIMENTS ON THE MUTUAL ACTION OF UNCLOSED CIRCUITS HAVE BEEN MADE..

And I must add that in his time it was almost impossible to do these experiments.

I have been experimenting with Maxwell for many years and I have discussed it for the first time in n.84 Vol.20 2000 of Nova Astronautica pp.3-9. I think that his fellow Emdrive inventor Roger Shawyer never picked up this invitation.

This conclude Laureti’s article.

Like I mentioned at the beginning, Laureti posted his reasonings also on Nasa spaceflight forum. However, as you will read in the link, he faced some fierce opposition and an animated discussion arose. In a recent mail exchange I had with Laureti he resolutely stated that he completely disagrees with the judgements he received, and his opposer will totally realize it once the know-how of PNN will be broadly available.

To conclude, I add some extra information I gathered after the abovementioned mail exchange:

• The setup in Figure c looks to me what I called “basic thruster unit” in the post I linked at the beginning, but stripped out of everything. It seems to me that the scope of this experiment is to demonstrate that thrust is produced in the dipoles, as ASPS claims. Laureti stated it’s a “PNN theory basic exercise”
• The lenght of λ/4 doesn’t change once the system is functioning because the dipoles move in unison, however in order to see something there are other detail to add
• The information that Laureti released over the recent months aren’t enough for other scientists to replicate PNN
• ASPS is considering various solutions to boost PNN thrust (among the earliest there are PNN tiles and dipole clusters). However, for money, time and secrecy reasons, the study is at halt

## 7 thoughts on “Thrust calculation in a half wave dipole”

1. Ottimo lavoro Sergio. Come ti dissi un postante (anonimo sedicente meberbs) su Nasaspaceflight ha più volte invocato censura contro di me e chiusura del tuo post su:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43756.0
Pochi giorni fa c’è riuscito per una discussione che durava da quasi un anno. Notare che il meberbs ha cercato diverse volte la rissa e la chiusura è arrivata quando gli ho detto che non gli replicavo più dato che lui non ha mai provato una delle sue asserzioni contro la pnn ne teoricamente ne sperimentalmente.
Ha perso le staffe quando gli ho detto di prendersela con le bilance kern che misuravano la spinta pnn malgrado il suo diluvio di chiacchiere.
Attualmente con gli ingegneri che mi aiutano stiamo aumentando la capacità di dissipazione termica del calore generato dal mosfet onde aumentare i tempi di spinta pnn.
Saluti e
quo fata ferunt

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2. Postato minuti fa su NSF

già 36 letture

…….

I just wanted to inform readers that my comments no longer fit in
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43756.0
will be done in https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/2018/09/04/calculation-of-the-thrust-in-a-half-wave-dipole/
up to the complete definition of the know-how and experimental results of the pnn F432 prototype
I would just like you to become aware of this theoretical possibility.
Censoring my post on the experimental setup of F432 on NSF the first ones that will be aware of the same will be the Russians and the Chinese.

Greetings

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1. Solo per dire che i lukkettari di NSF hanno tolto il post in oggetto dopo almeno 107 letture
e che comunque chi vuol trovare info in inglese dell’evoluzione della pnn sa dove trovarle.
Solo un comento finale:
Stavolta gli americani non troveranno un Von Braun che li salvi 🙂

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1. sergioz82 says:

Qualcosa mi dice che il prossimo post su Nasa spaceflight non lo chiuderanno 🙂

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2. sergioz82 says:

Your comments are of course welcome here

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1. il know-how di F432 uscirà prima sul tuo forum e sulla url dell’asps.
Non so se lo invierò anche su NSF.
Cmq…cmq… prima di passare a tale atto debbo brevettare con sicurezza e avere anche altre “armi” da usare contro gli inevitabili copiatori .
Un ultima info …. sembra che Musk dopo le ipotetiche colonizzazioni di Marte stia sbroccando 🙂